>> Good afternoon, you're all here to learn about making PDF forms accessible and that's what we're going to talk about all afternoon. Mostly, we're not going to talk, we're going to do, we've got sample files, we're going to work in. Several different [inaudible] PDF forms and sort of [inaudible] figure out how is this form going to be accessed by somebody who's not able to see it primarily is what we're looking at, if somebody is using a screen reader or using a Braille device, how can they interact with this form in a way that's meaningful and how can we ensure that they are able to fill it out, they're able to, to fully participate in whatever that form allows. So, how many of you have taken over [inaudible] taken tomorrow one of the accessible PDF documents workshops? Okay, so for those that [inaudible] we are offering those a couple of times tomorrow and I think there's still an opportunity to sign up for those if you're interested, just talk to Dean up here, and if you want to sit in on those, you certainly can. We'll talk a little bit at the beginning here about PDF accessibility in general, before we get into forms accessibility so you kind of get a broad overview of that and if you want some more information about that after we've talk about that then, tomorrow would be a good time to get that. Did everybody get a handout? Is there anybody who did not get a handout? Okay, excellent. So this is a very small handout, it's two, two pages and we've got a couple of work flows here, one on the front, [inaudible] process ensuring that your PDF is accessible as a document, as well as, making any repairs that are necessary. Mostly what we're going to be focusing on today is the stuff that's on page two which is the PDF forms accessibility repair work flow. Same sort of thing, there're just a series of steps, series of the questions that we ask as we look at PDFs and steps to follow if any of those questions are answered well, know this might not be accessible, we need to take some steps to make sure that it is. Also, because this is a fairly short handout, we cover kind of a broad overview of the kind of things you look for and the steps that you generally follow, but every PDF is unique and you're always going to encounter things that come up just because the nature of the PDF you're working with is different than any other PDF and so that's where these resources on the back come in especially handy, so some really good resources, Adobe in particular, they'd be dot com slash accessibility. They provide a lot of documentation about how to create accessible PDFs, how to create accessible PDF forms and they've got, you know, written documentation, as well as, videos so you can have information directly from the source. But there are also these other online tutorials from web aim, California State University and there's a book by Karen McCall that is over 800 pages of how to make a PDF accessible. So it can be very complicated and there can be lots and lots of steps involved but that's just because PDFs are all so different and unique circumstances may come up in each, in each document. For the most part, it actually is pretty simple and so what, what we're going to be doing today is looking at that process and then applying that process to a variety of different PDFs. So a bit about myself, I'm Gerald Thompson and I'm actually from Purdue, originally. I graduated from here many years ago, good to be back. I'm now in the northwest at the University of Washington and I'm a Technology Accessibility Specialist there so we have, as you do thousands, you know, maybe tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of PDFs and we're doing our best to try to get the word out to authors that there're good ways to create these and not so good ways to create these so that everybody can use them. But we still have a very, very tiny fraction of our PDFs are actually accessible and so we're, we're all working on trying to address that problem. So the message that I bring is that it's not difficult to create an accessible tagged PDF and we'll talk in a moment about what tagged means. Just a matter of getting clear with the process and getting acquainted with the steps. So what makes an electronic document accessible, regardless of the format? We'll talk specifically about PDFs, for the most part, but we'll also refer to HTML because that too, is a document type and it's one that really is kind of the, the ultimate in terms of accessibility, that HTML provides everything we need and always has to make documents accessible and so what we're trying to do with other document formats in Word or PDF is basically, mimic what HTML is capable of. So a lot of these have kind of the same things in common, when we're talking about making documents accessible for everybody. There are certain things that need to happen. First of all, non-text content, such as images, need to be described in a way that somebody can access if they're not visual. So a person can't see a document and you're communicating information with just images then, there needs to be alternate text that describes those images succinctly so the screen reader user, or somebody using a Braille device, can access the content of those images. So almost every operating tool provides that capability so if your creating a document and you insert an image, there is then someway to add alternate text to that image and we will -- I'll show you an example here in a moment of how to do that in Word, but we'll also be looking at how to do that in Adobe Acrobat. Also, the structure and the relationships within a document all need to be explicitly communicated within the markup of that document, behind the scenes, kind of the code that provides the scaffolding for how this document is built, that all needs to be set up in such a way that the headings and lists and tables and form fields are all communicated explicitly to users of assisted technology. So I can best explain that a little better perhaps, with example. I'm going to pull up a web page. This is a fake course syllabus for a fake university. And there're lots of visual cues here to help us to understand how this document is organized, right. You've got an image at the top that is the banner, the logo of the university, the branding of the university. Then we have -- the rest of the page is sort of divided into sections. You have a main heading, sort of serves as the title of the document, we have several sub-headings, those are like level two headings, they're all the same level, but they're at the top of different sections. Now, how do we know that those are headings? I'm just assuming that they're headings. >> They're bold. >> They're bold, they're bigger, they're also bigger than the text that precedes and follows them. How do we know that these three items under course objectives are a list? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Okay. What else? How do we know that this class schedule is organized in a table? >> Column base. >> Yep. There's rows and columns. We've got [inaudible] of each column, so that actually is a unique thing -- the whole thing's a table. This is a table header. Three columns and there's another table down at the bottom. So all these cues that you mentioned are visual cues, so imagine that you don't have sight and you're having to make sense of this. If it's just text, you have introduction to physics course syllabus, [inaudible] text for this course will be introduction to physics second edition, offered by the instructor, course objectives offer students exposure etcetera and that's how [inaudible] get down to the table and, you know, you're here, it reads one, two, final 15%, 15%, 15%, 20%, 10% and you, somehow, have to make sense of that in the context of all the stuff that has preceded it. It really is not usable. But that's the kind of experience that the screen reader user will have unless there's a markup behind the scenes that allows all this to be explicitly communicated. So if we look at the source, how many of you are actually -- web developers here have done some HTML or know a little bit about HTML? [Inaudible] So hopefully, this isn't too scary for those of you that did not raise your hand. I just want to show you that this is all communicated to screen reader users because it uses HTML markup that identifies the function or the role of the different parts. So here we have the H1 tag, that's a heading level one, that top level heading. Screen reader sees that this is not just introduction to physics course syllabus, it sees that it's an H1 and so it's able then to deliver that message to the user, but this is a heading, it's a top level heading. This is the second level heading, it's an H2. This is another second level heading. Here's a list, UL stands for unordered list and there's all the list items each marked with an LI tag and so the screen reader is able to look and say, okay, here's a list, it's able to count how many items it has and then it can re-route information on to the user. If we get down into the table then, there are tags, there's a developer of the table tag and there are tags that organize all that into rows and table headers, those are the cells at the top of each column and table data cells, which are the actual data inside the, the table. So [inaudible] markup done, it becomes critical to making sure that it is accessible. So let's listen to what this actually sounds like for a screen reader user and this actually, I'm just going to demonstrate rather than you guys, you guys will be listening a little bit later. Where do I find jaws? >> Try going to alt programs and course software, ATC and... >> Nope. >> I don't know why, you got it yesterday. >> [Inaudible] it was in the other lab, but some reason it's not. >> Or either you were typing jaws and it just brought it up. >> And it had because I'd run over each of your, along with the others, so it must have got installed in a way that's different then. >> It must have. >> Who knows? Let me -- I think I can do this pretty quickly. It might be, it might be worth listening to. But I'm going to pull up my own laptop and just give you an idea of what this'll sound like. [ Silence ] >> See, you can't see what I'm doing, but that's good. [laughter] [ Video ] >> There's a lot of information there, obviously, but as the user you get used to all of that. [ Video ] >> [Inaudible] it's just local. [ Video ] >> Once again, I have the -- I'm running Windows on Mac and I don't have the Windows keyboard that's super handy, but I think I can do this. [ Video ] >> That's a -- any of you Internet Explorer users. Are you annoyed by the notification bar that pops up at the bottom of the screen, often? Well, it's even more annoying when you have to listen to it. >> [Laughter] >> So for the top of this file ... >> [Inaudible comment] >> Not at the top of the file. Let me jump up there. >> [Inaudible] the assumptions of this is for syllabus. The graphic's Accessible University. >> The graphic? Don't you have alternate text associated with it, so when this [inaudible] was created, alternate text was assigned to that graphic and so we see Accessible University, it's just a picture. Screen reader would not be able to identify that as Accessible University unless we told it that's what it said. So as authors of this document we told it that and the screen reader user then gets that information. So the screen reader automatically says, "This is a graphic, it's a graphic," and then it reads the alternate text. >> [Inaudible] >> And now, what the user will often do when they enter a document is explore it, sort of like we do as sighted users, you kind of visually scan the page or any document, even the printed page, visually scan, figure out how, how it's organized and structured and then hone in on the stuff that meets your needs. So screen readers should do the same thing, that H key in JAWS stands for heading and it takes you through the heading structure of the page, so if I hit H now. >> [Inaudible] >> Then it tells me -- it takes me to that heading and identifies it as a heading level one, so that's kind of the top heading of the document. >> Text for heading level two. >> And again, I go to the first heading level two. >> Course objectives heading level two. >> And again. >> Course objectives heading level two. >> And again. >> Grades heading level two. >> So it's the grades down below. >> [Inaudible] heading level one. >> And so then I come back to the start again. So by having those headings explicitly marked up as headings, I'm able to jump through the document, explore it and now that I know how it's organized and outlined I can jump right to the content that meets my needs. And so if I wanted to see course objectives then I'd go. >> [Inaudible] Next schedule [inaudible] course objectives heading level two. >> Now, to that and then I can use my [inaudible] to go into that section and explore that section. >> List of three items. So [inaudible] it's coded as a list, helps the screen reader to help me as a user, because I know how many items are in this list. If it had been 30 items, I might not want to read it right now, I might have something else to do and so I'll go on to reading something else. But three items, I just go ahead and listen to that. So, so that's kind of it in a nutshell and screen readers, you depend on their markup in order to understand what all these objects are on the page, it's not just text. It's headings and lists and paragraphs and tables and table data and table headers and, and images and alternate text and so this then becomes an accessible browsing experience. I can read this document with, with speech output [assumed spelling] just like a sighted user can read it visually. With forms that becomes critical as well, because we have form fields and we took away and had to have some sort of prompts. Form, what you're supposed to do with that form field? There, your name, in a field and what's the end of your name? It wasn't two separate things, just text and says your name and a field that you enter your name into those aren't explicitly connected, the screen reader doesn't necessarily understand that those two go together. We visually make that connection, typically, because the way the label is somewhere near the form field, but the screen reader is not able to necessarily make that connection. So we have to, as authors, we have to make sure that that happens. In HTML, we use a label element to connect the label to the form field and there are techniques when we author our PDFs to make sure that the same thing happens. Okay, does that concept make sense? So we have to write as much markup as we can to make our forms readable. >> [Inaudible comment] >> So if we turn our attention specifically to PDFs, we have a million types of PDFs, because there are so many tools that are able to create PDFs, it's very easy, almost with any tool to create a document. You can print to PDF, you can save to PDF, export to PDF and each one of those is going to look a little different than the next will and depending on how you've authored your document and what your settings are like, has an affect on the output as well. And so every PDF looks a little bit different than, than the other -- the next one, but there are in general, three types. The first is just an image, where you've scanned in a document, save it as a PDF, that is always accessible, as you can imagine, it's just an image. There's no actual text there for the screen reader to read. The second type is a document that actually contains fonts so there is text there, and screen readers may even be able to read that text, but there's no structure. So you don't get the headings, you don't get lists, you don't get, you know, labels and forms and tables and all of that markup isn't there so it really is just like reading words from the top to the bottom of the document without any kind of organization to those words. And sometimes it doesn't even read them in the right order, because PDF is designed originally to be a visual medium and that sometimes is the output that you get, particularly, if you just press to PDF then, if you're really that concerned about the reader of the content, it's just taking the content that you have in your operating tool and putting that out into a PDF document and sometimes in random order or the order in which you drag it into your operating tool. So it doesn't always read in a way that makes sense. So that type is somewhat more accessible than just an image, but it still has accessibility problems. So that the type that we're after is the tagged PDF. This has been around for about 10 years or so, it was created by Adobe in response to Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act being passed. Federal law that required -- the Federal government to be sure that its information technology was accessible and so any PDFs that the government was using, internally or externally, in communication with the public had to be tagged, had to be accessible and so Adobe created this format to, to allow that to happen with PDF. It's been an awful long time, but we still have very, very low rates of adoption of that technology. So how do we go about creating an accessible PDF? Well, first of all, we need to use an authoring tool that supports creating accessible PDFs. One that works very well is Microsoft Office. So if you use Word as your starting point, then you can create a document that meets all of these requirements. You can create a document that has headings and subheadings, so you have that clear explicit structure. You can add alternate text and images in Word and then, when you've done those things you export to a tagged PDF file and all of that content, all of that structure that you added is delivered to the PDF. Like, it's passed on to the PDF. Yes. >> Is that restricted to a certain version of Word or [inaudible] or [inaudible] version or Mac version or? >> Yeah, there it gets a little complicated unfortunately. What versions of Word are you guys using, yeah. How many have 2010? [Inaudible] And how many of you are using [inaudible] 2010, hands up, how many are doing that on Windows and how many of you using a Mac? Okay. So we're, we're [inaudible] a couple slides on, on Word and the version does affect -- they're not all the same, so what you do is impacted by what version you have. But on some level, it has been, been supported in Word for quite a while. Once you have figured out that you're supposed to do these things [inaudible] text images and how to do them and use the proper heading structure, that's how it's easy to do so just get in, in the habit of doing that every time you create a document not just, you know, it's one document that you, that you know is going to be read by somebody with a screen reader just do it all the time, it really doesn't take much extra time and it's a good habit to get into. And then finally, all of our documents will eventually become accessible. So what this looks like in Word, you can right click on an image and you can select something from, from the menu that pops down that will allow you to get in and add alternate text. So what you select depends on what version of Office you're using. First of all, this was not possible in, on the Mac at all until 2010. And that is 2010 service pack one. It wasn't in 2010 initially, it was service pack one that added the ability to add alternate text to images. >> Are you referring to Office 2011 for MAC? >> It's a 2011 on MAC, and 2010 on Windows, yeah, so you're right. >> [Inaudible comment] >> Yeah. 2011 is when, service pack one is when alternate text became possible. But that's only possible if you're creating -- if your end result is a Word document. The final step in all this is that we want to save to a tagged PDF and that still is not possible on Mac so when I'm taking Mac up here and what I had to do as part of my professional process, actually [inaudible] operate in Mac and Word 2011 for, for Mac and then the final step of saving to PDF, I had to switch over to, to Windows to [inaudible] Mac and, and so I switched over to Windows, open up Word for Windows and save as a tagged PDF, that same document. So it's unfortunate that you can't do it in, in the Mac so you got to go out and get a hold of Windows, Word for Windows, in order to do that final step. In terms of heading styles, you've got, it's built in through styles or whatever and so if, in this particular example, mini grant proposal is the number one, so heading level one and so what will need to happen is we would select that text, click the heading one button and for the heading two's, we'd select that text, click the heading two button to make sure that it's not just big, bold text, it actually really is a heading and that the fact that it is a heading, it's passed on now to PDF when we export it. So there are some other issues with the different versions of Office and how you add alternate text, images and how you go about saving to tagged PDF, because there's some certain you need to check and so forth. That's all stuff that we cover in the basic class. So as we talk about documents as opposed to forms. So I'm going to skip most of those details in the interest of getting to forms, because that's what I think you guys are most interested in, but if you want to know more of the details and actually get in and get some hands on practice working with documents, not forms, then, you know, stop by one of those classes tomorrow, if you can or if you have a [inaudible] in the room that knows more about this, then we'll take a break at some point and you can come see me during break and we can talk more about that. It's also well -- the differences between Mac and Windows is pretty well documented and so check out these resources. You can find information about that online too. If you create a form or somebody creates a form and you are then somehow responsible for it or a document that is not accessible, you can still make it accessible. So there's just sort of a few approaches. One is create an accessible document from the beginning or you make it accessible after the fact. So if you have to go back in and touch up an inaccessible document and make it accessible, then that's possible using Adobe Acrobat Pro. And the workflow that is up here is the abbreviated version of the one that's on the front page of your handouts. The process basically is, we go through the documents and we, we just check certain things to make sure that they are happening and fix them if they're not. In the document training, we actually get at and use a bunch of examples, walk through this workflow ourselves. What I'm going to do here is just show you really quickly what this looks like using Adobe Acrobat Pro Version 10. [ Silence ] >> And then I opened up the PDF version of that same file, the syllabus file that we're looking at in HTML version. This was created in Word and required all the steps to make it accessible. So it should be a pretty accessible PDF, but the process for checking that -- first of all, we ask, "Does the document have text?" We want to find out whether it's just a scanned image or not. [Inaudible] >> Drag the mouse? >> Yeah, just drag the mouse, try to see if you can select some text. If you can, there are specs there. Usually, you can tell visually too, if the document is kind of askew or, you know, there's lint [assumed spelling] all over the screen or something where you can tell if a book was held down on the scanner and then it kind of bows a little bit on the sides then, that all -- it's going to be an image probably. If it's an image, then you go to tools -- there are a bunch of tools over here. One of them is recognize text. That is Adobe's own optical character recognition or OCR tool, which is pretty accurate. It's going to be as the scan is good. So you've got that document that was just a book pressed down on the scanner, then it's probably not going to be as accurate with that, as it would be if it was a really good, crisp quality, yeah. First generation scan, but -- so you recognize text in this file. It goes through, converts the image to text and if there's some words or phrases that it's not confident that it got right, it'll prompt you and say, "Check this." And you'll have an opportunity to correct it if it was wrong. So that's step one. Step two, is the document tagged. We've talked about that before because of having a tagged structure. You can find out whether the PDF is tagged by going to file, properties, control D is the shortcut. Whether it's at the document properties dialog and in the left most tab, all the way down at the bottom is tagged PDF. Yes, in this case. Most often, you'll see no there. That, that step was not taken. It was not created as a tagged PDF. You can also see [inaudible] sometimes what application was used to create this document. In this case, it was Microsoft Word 2010. You have a document that just really has some really flaky issues that might be the result of how it was created and so just knowing that may help you to troubleshoot, as you get more and more practice with this. If it was not tagged, probably, if you go over here to tools and go as a tool probe accessibility. It might not be there by default, but you can go into view tools, accessibility and then it appears over in your tool kit. This has a lot of options that we've looked at or worked with when we're trying to address accessibility. One of those that's grayed right now -- is add tags to document. So it would automatically go through and figure out the tagged structure here and add tags. In this case, it's not necessary because it's already tagged. One of the three [inaudible] the document needs to be touched up. Just because it's tagged doesn't mean that everything is in the right order or that everything is the way we want it, so if you touch up reading order then it shows you what the read order of the document is and even in this document that we created, following all of the right steps, trying to be as accessible as we possibly could, we see that, that figure, the banner is going to be read six. It would make sense if that was read first, since it's the top of the page. So we can show order panel and that gives us a list of all the objects that are identified in the document itself. We grab number six, which is that image. We move it up to the top and now, that image will be read first, which is where it should be read. This is also where we can get in -- it says figure and identifies the alternate text, accessible university, but if we have a figure that did not have any alternate text assigned to it yet, we can right click and go to head of alternate text and type in alternate text or we could change alternate text. So you do that from here in this same touchup reading order tool. We can also view the tag structure directly and that -- over here on the left side, sometimes you might have a little -- it's look like a luggage bag icon. You go to view, show/hide, navigation panes, tags. Then, that brings up this tags panel and that allows us to curl down in and just actually look at the tag structure that is behind the scenes on this document. And it looks like HTML. Those of you who said you know HTML. These are all PDF tags. They're not actually HTML, but they are modeled after HTML, so it's the same sort of markup. Page one, H2, paragraphs, lists, tables. You drill down into table, you see table rows, table headers, or table rows and table data cells, etcetera. Looks pretty familiar. All this is non-visual. It's just again, my understanding, if you do something, even like delete the whole thing, get rid of all the tags, it won't affect the visual document at all. It's just going to affect how this is it delivered to the screen reader users. And also, there's a note here, maybe you should put this in bold, but under that second heading [inaudible] it says, "Marked up PDFs can have unpredictable results and there is no undo," which is true. So be sure and save frequently. I like to save variations. So save as and save a new file each time, so you can go back to one that worked previously, if something breaks. Like now, I have no tags left. [laugh] Although that was intentional. So another thing you can do is an accessibility check. The accessibility tool kit includes a quick check and a full check. And another provision, as is documented here in the workflow is to do that last, so you fix everything that you know how to fix and then run an accessibility check and just see if it comes up with anything else. Otherwise, it will give you lots and lots of errors and it's kind of cumbersome, the report that it produces and so you have to then read through that and try to make sense of what they're telling you and it's fine that it's a lot. One of my more friendlier experiences, if you already know, you know, the few things you need to look for. Look for and correct those things first and then run the checker and see what's left, if anything. So this all pertains to document accessibility, but what we really want to find out is how do you make a form accessible? And it's kind of some of the same idea. We need to make sure that the structure is there. That our form structure is there, that labels are associated with fields and that everything is going to be verbalized to somebody who's using the screen reader. So keeping with the not difficult theme, it is not difficult to create an accessible PDF form. I think the basics are pretty straightforward. But we're going to get into some scenarios as we walk through a few forms here today where things get progressively more challenging and you know, we have decisions to make and things to troubleshoot and so forth. But that adds heart. It's a pretty straightforward process and you're kind of looking for the same types of issues with every form. So there are two types or two methods for creating a form that we're going to be looking at today. The one we're going to spend the most time with is using Adobe Acrobat Pro, where we have a document that we have created in some sort of authoring tool, like, Word or InDesign or yeah, any document that's capable of producing [inaudible] producing a document. And then we're want to make that form interactive as a PDF, so that people can fill it out using their computer. So they don't have to print it out and fill it out by hand. So Acrobat Pro is capable of that. It's got lots of features that allow that to happen. But the key that things we need to look at in the way to accessibility are, first of all, the tab order. Somebody's going to be tabbing through this field, or this form from field-to-field-to-field, filling it out, so the tab order needs to make sense. And that's not just an accessibility issue, it's good for everybody, because I think most people probably fill forms out that way, rather than type and then find your mouse arrow and move over to the next field. That's not very efficient. There are people that still work that way, but tabbing really benefits everybody. We need to make sure that all fields have labels, explicitly associated with them because we're going to see tool tips are the way that PDF does this and then check boxes and radio buttons are other types of form fields have, so unique issues just, you know, for those field types and so that's some examples of what we actually look at. How those field types differ from other field types. Also, we need to kind of be sensitive to how we use cruller [assumed spelling] to make sure that, you know, we have the opportunity to have background colors and so forth to our form fields. Make sure we preserve contrast. So that it's easy on the eyes and everybody's going to be able to see and for people who are color blind, who can't perceive color, are still able to understand the content that you are presenting. Nothing gets lost by you using color. So what we've talked about so far with documents is adding tags to the document, bringing tagged format, using tools to support that. We're talking about forms that actually sort of takes a back seat, that we want to do, is we want to create a document that has interactive forms. We don't care so much about the text and that will go in after after we have created an accessible form, then we go in and we look at the rest of the document. So if you've got a form embedded within a larger document, then all that other stuff, the headings and the things that we've looked at so far, those become the end stuff to sort of polish off and make accessible, the form that we've created using Acrobat Pro. But form comes first, then the rest of the document when we're working on a document that contains a form. So we're going to spend some time looking at -- we going to do this in Acrobat Pro and then we're going to look at LiveCycle Designer, which is another Adobe product that allows us to create forms and then include some features for creating accessible and some features that you need to avoid in order to not break accessibility. So I think we're ready to plunge in. Does anyone have any questions at this point? Okay. Just out of curiosity, how many of you, as you're working with forms, how many of you have already created interactive forms? Okay, so that's most of you. Have you mostly done that within -- how many of you have done that within Acrobat Pro? How many of you have used LiveCycle Designer? That's so -- quite a few. >> InDesign, I use InDesign. >> You used InDesign to do the whole interactive form thing? >> No, no. To create the form, then I make it interactive. >> Okay, using Acrobat Pro. >> Yes. >> Okay, so LiveCycle, those of you who are actually LiveCycle users, you may have views to contribute and so forth. I don't use that a lot myself, so I know kind of the basics and the things to look for, for accessibility, but feel free when we get to that section. You know, to chime in and share some of your insights as well. Let's open up Acrobat Pro and if you just click on your start menu and type in Acrobat, then it should pop up and be careful not to choose the one that says Acrobat XPro10.0.3. It has a version number on the end. Avoid that one because it takes forever to load, but the one with no version, the W Acrobat XPro, click on that and it should pop up in no time. [ Silence ] >> And when it does, go to file, open, navigate to your PDF Workshop folder. And within that folder, you'll see a forms folder, go ahead and go into that and select example one, reasonable accommodations. >> [Inaudible comment] >> And -- so you go to W Acrobat Pro up. You go to file, open, that subfolder that -- it should be on your desktop, PDF Workshop. Go into that. Some of you that there may be another PDF Workshop folder inside of that one, just keep drilling into that until you find a forms subfolder and then grab at example one. [ Silence ] >> Everybody there? >> Acrobat Pro is still loading. >> Anybody else slow, trying to load Acrobat Pro? >> You said examples, right? >> Yeah. >> Actually [inaudible] [ Silence ] >> Whatever you're [inaudible] for most of this to that work order on page two, the PDF form, the accessibilities repair workflow. We're going just walk item-by-item through that. So at question one in that workflow, is the form interactive? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Just click somewhere and type. If it accepts your input, then, yes, it is designed to be an interactive form. If it wasn't then, we would proceed to creating an accessible PDF form and we'll have an example where we'll go where we need to do that, but in this case, we don't need to. That stuff has been done. Number two, is the tab order intuitive? If you just start pressing the tab key then, you'll navigate through the form and as you exact [assumed spelling] yourself does this tab order make sense? What do you think? >> [In unison] hmm-mm. >> Yep. Anything -- anybody view it differently? It's pretty straightforward right? It -- you all know about the highlight, highlight fields [inaudible] it's a little -- for some users, you know, it might seem a little strange. You've got the fields that are sort of [inaudible] and then you tab to them and they go off. It's that whole color thing that's a little distracting. That's up to the user though. It's not up to the author so much. If users -- users have control over that, so they click, highlight existing fields. You turn on that so you know where the fields are. You can also turn it off so as you tab through the form, you don't have all that distracting, sort of strobe light backgrounds coming and going. So it's something to be aware of as you're thinking about, "Well, what should I use for background colors and so forth." Know that some people will be highlighting the fields and you know, tests that use backgrounds. They use it on one field and test it with highlights on, highlights off. See what kind of effect that has. If the tab order was not intuitive, we could fix it by going to tools, forms, [inaudible] and that brings up then, a list of all the form fields that are in our form and all we have to do is drag them around. By default, they are in tab order when they pop up over there. So if you wanted, you know, you didn't like the way it does, I guess from left to right. Maybe you wanted all these to go down then name would follow the accommodation request date or, let's see, that's position title we'd go up underneath name, so you can just drag it, move it up there and just kind of move things around until they in the order that you like. And after you're done -- after you've any sort of change here you can click on preview and test it out. And then where the preview button used to be there's not [inaudible] go back into edit mode. Kind of just go back and forth between the two see what you've done. When you're finally done editing, you click on the close form editing button to go back into document mode. So the next question, are all text fields appropriately labeled? And it says here in the document it gives you two different methods for how to tell whether that's true and the first one actually is incorrect so just ignore that. The best way really to tell is to just get the full screen reader experience because that's why you're concerned about here is if a person is navigating with the screen reader what do they hear when they go to each field? And so you all have headphones that I believe have been confirmed to work. And Adobe has its own screen reader built in. It, it's not a fully functional screen reader. It's -- this is not a tool that somebody who depends on a screen reader would actually use probably to access your content they'd be using you know a much more powerful solution like JAWS or some of the other tools that are available. But this is a great little tool for us getting acquainted with how a screen reader might hear certain things. So you turn on read out loud, as it's called by going view, read out loud, activate, read out loud. And after you've done that you can start tabbing through the documents and it will read the tool tip or the label for each field as that field gets focus. So just try that start hitting tab and move through the form and see what you find. And particularly, ask yourself, are these labels adequate for somebody to know what they're supposed to do? If you don't have any sound output let us know and we can problem solve. [ Background noise ] >> I have a question when you -- when you make your [inaudible] test, do you have all the text fields. >> Yeah. >> Yes recognizes the text fields. But it's actually adding that. >> It's adding that. >> Yeah. Yes. >> [Inaudible] tells you [inaudible] make sense [inaudible] boxes. >> Yeah, so that's prowess [assumed spelling] That's exactly what you're trying to find is are there some fields here that are not appropriately labeled and those, in fact, are not appropriately labeled, so we're going to have to fix that. Yes. >> Okay, if I [inaudible] on e-mail [inaudible] >> You can try it. >> Well, because Purdue standards would be e-mail. >> Yeah. That's -- because it's [inaudible] says e-mail, the users are going to understand that. So it's really not -- it's not a big deal and ... >> Oh, here it is. >> The screeners actually, mispronounce a lot of things. The big one for us is University of Washington, you ever get a UW everywhere and it always just says, "U." So the users have just kind of gotten used to hearing U this and U that, you know, for every University of Washington document. So, but people are always asking, "You know, should I, you know, should I spell, the University of Washington because that doesn't sound very good as UW or should I put spaces in between the U and the W make it read appropriately and no just, you know, screener reader users are used to that kind of thing. So a couple of you pointed out already there are some problem fields here right, they're not all labeled well. The ones up at the top I think all are. [ Background noise ] >> And that there's also question when you're labeling these, do you put in text field? And the answer is no. The screen reader recognizes this as a text field and so they have some way of communicating that to the user. So that's actually -- read out loud is adding that text, it's not part of the label. [ Background noise ] >> What's [inaudible] you guys heard? This is just a [inaudible] in an earlier class, but said -- originally said text field because there is no label associated with it, and so that's what you're trying to find when you do this test you go through looking for fields that don't have good prompts. And if there's not a good prompt, then that's when you need to fix. So at this point to get you to turn off read out loud, deactivate it, otherwise, it starts chattering when you don't want it to. And we then, want to go into edit mode in our form and correct that. Actually, probably, we should go back before we do that, close form editing, because this is not -- it's a pretty lengthy prompt and it's probably not something you want to type in. So you can highlight it, copy it. What the -- well, select, copy, not copy with formatting. If you select copy with formatting, the formatting is going to get lost when you paste it into the tool tip anyway, and it's going to take a long time to copy with formatting. You may sit there for a while and grind away. So that's just a copy text as plain text. Then go back into edit. You can right click on a field and select properties or you can just double click on the field and that brings up the properties dialog. [ Background noise ] >> The name of this field is text five. That doesn't have any influence on what the user experiences, but when the data from the field gets, you know, sent to you by email, or you know sent to your database, or whatever happens after the user submits this, there might be a time when you need to access that field name or you know be doing any sort of scripting or, you know, you're needing to access that, it's probably a good idea to have that be an intuitive name. So rather than text five, you have you might call it [inaudible] numbers or maybe you know question one or you could name it according to what the question is, but something a little more intuitive than text five. I would go with question one, probably. And then the tool tip is actually where the text gets entered, but is read by a screen reader users. It serves a couple of functions, not just -- not only is it read by screen reader users but, that also it is [inaudible] the tool tip the little bubble that pops up when a mouse user hovers over the form field and it pops up with that supplemental information. So it's actually redundant for them, because they've got it visible already here, but that's just the way that we chose to do it. [ Background noise ] >> So go ahead and do that with maybe, the first two or three fields just go ahead and add a tool tip copy that text and paste. It means you have to get -- get in and out of form editing. This is also a much, if you select all the text, a much larger than average tool tip. We'd like it to be short and sweet. But this prompt is contains all probably the pretty meaningful and important information that people who are filling this out need to know and so I don't that you can really cut any corners there. But after you have changed a couple of these, save it and edit or exit edit mode and then turn read out loud back on again, tab through your form again and listen and see if it sounds better now. [ Background noise ] >> What should we do with number five? Is anybody puzzled over that yet? Did you come up with solutions or just identified your problem? Any ideas? You got two fields here. >> Yes [inaudible] words for accessibility [inaudible] >> So say, that again. >> If you [inaudible] press y for yes or n for no in the text that can be read to them and then it would basically, give us that [inaudible] if you press y, it'll come as yes once that [inaudible] >> Oh, I don't know. >> Y makes it yes and makes it no. [Inaudible] just change this [inaudible] and say press y for yes. >> Okay. So what would -- so in addition to that though, what would the tool tip be for that field? >> Press y. Oh well, [inaudible] >> That sentence before it. >> Press y. If you change the wording of that sentence ... >> So I closed the applicable medical -- it's also another thing you could do when you give that field. Focus is use the arrow keys so if you can just [inaudible] you can just up to yes and down to no and screen reader users all know those little tricks on how to navigate my keyboard and people who are unable to use the mouse know that too. Somebody who is just kind of using the tab key to breeze through the form might not be so in tune with those kinds of tricks which should also be a little bigger it doesn't hold the text. What happens though -- what about this text up here, as it says here at number five? Medical verification of the impairments, check the appropriate box. [ Background noise ] >> Don't see any box. [laughter] >> Don't see any boxes. Well, it took me a while to -- I had to puzzle over this one a little bit, but it seems to be that these are two choices it's like a field within a field, that you can either enclose the applicable medical documents, or you don't need to do that because it's obvious and, but you do need to provide an explanation. So apparently, there should be a check box here and a check box here and you're supposed to pick one and then based on whichever one you pick you're supposed to add and either fill this out or fill this out. So that's not a technical problem that is a form design problem that somebody needs to rethink how this has been laid out and what their asking people to do and rephrase it, so that it's clear and easier for people to understand what they're supposed to do. And, you know, if it ends up this being the right model then, they need to put some check boxes. But I think this is probably not the right model. So any questions about this form before we move on to example two? Okay, well, let's do so file close and then open up example two. >> [Inaudible comment] >> Probably not. Unless, this is your form -- if it's your department's form then you might. >> Is that first form a real form [inaudible] >> Yeah, these are all they're are all real forms. I don't whether they're active, you know, if they're out there for people to fill out or not, but ... >> [Inaudible comment] >> The what? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Because I had a typo? >> That says, institutional [inaudible] >> So it should be institutional [inaudible] >> Institutional [inaudible] [laughter] >> There's another one too at the top of [inaudible] that said the ADA/A -- what is it? Anybody have [inaudible] It had an acronym that appeared twice and one time it had more a's then it did the first time. >> Oh, A - D - A- A -- yeah, American Disability Act -- A - A -- amended acts, so. >> But then there's one time it appeared with three a's, so it's like an extra a. >> [Inaudible comment] >> Yeah, but then, there's another a. >> Yeah, yeah. Hmm-mm. >> ADAAA. [Laughter] >> It's a little fun when the screen reader says it too. Screen readers are impacted by tongue twisters. So example two has some unique challenges. Let's go back to step one and walk through what is the form interactive first of all. [ Background noise ] >> Okay, so if that's true then, is the tab order intuitive? [ Background noise ] >> Anybody here from Human Resources? >> Yeah. [ Background noise ] >> Nobody should be embarrassed by these forms by the way because every form has its own unique set of issues. [ Inaudible comment ] >> Yeah, that's probably gnh or ugnh. The upper GNH might have been added late or something. [ Multiples speak ] >> That's okay, there's three more forms just like this [inaudible] mark up [inaudible] >> Tab order is not intuitive. >> Tab order is not intuitive. Where does it break down? [ Inaudible comment ] >> Okay. It -- even up at the top, I mean, you really start to notice it when you get down and it jumps over and outside activity and then goes back and sort of hopping all over the place down here. But even up above because these fields are numbered with letters, it would seem that you would probably want to move in that sequence right. Go from A to B to C to D. Let's say we're going A B E F C G, but also even if those letters aren't there I would think unit name and unit number, you would want to do those back-to-back. So go ahead and play around a little bit with the ordering. Again, if you go to tools, edit then, you get that tab order, list of fields then, you can drag the fields around so that they are in the proper order. [ Background noise ] >> After you feel like you had enough fun with rearranging the tab order, you can start looking at labels, and that -- again, the best way is just to go listen to it. So activate read out loud and tab through. You can also, usually get a sense by looking at the text that appears inside of each field. That is the name of the field but a lot of times that's also the tool tip or there is no tool tip. And so assuming that those names and tool tips are the same are there some that you think could be better? >> Yes. >> And so which one's in particular need to be improved. And let's not look at radio buttons yet. We'll look at those in a moment. [ Inaudible comment ] >> Yeah, well, let's kind of talk about why we do first, and then, you can play around it, or you can play around with it [inaudible] >> I asked for the number of work hour apps and it says the source of [inaudible] >> Which one is that? >> It's under [inaudible] work hours apps [inaudible] what the source of salary [inaudible] >> Oh, okay, I see that. Yes and that was just completely off. All right, now, up higher, what do you think about E? PUID/PERN [assumed spelling] and maybe it's because I'm an outsider, but is that clear to everybody else? >> Yeah. Yes, that's standard. That's your personnel. P -- Purdue ID --Personal Number. That's what it's used for. >> But it's not it's not only one. There's no distinction [inaudible] a slash or something in there [inaudible] >> Yeah, so that's my confusion [inaudible] P is Purdue, but whether or not you need to enter both, is my question. >> No. >> Is my question. And so that would be -- so everybody that could possibly fill this form out would know that it's not asking for code PID in printer, it's asking for one or the other? I'm saying, is there any chance that somebody might be confused by that, and might think that it's asking for both. So they need to figure out -- they know what the Purdue ID is now, they got to figure out what the partner is, so they can also add that. If there's any chance of confusion, this could be an opportunity to add a tool tip that clarifies what that means exactly. So what the label below will say PUID/PERN, but the tool tip, which really in its functionality for mouse users is exclamatory supplemental text. So we hover over that and when we do so, it gives us some additional information. It may even say, you know, your Purdue ID, here's where you find that or your PERN, here's where you find that. Or you enter your Purdue ID or your PERN, just something to give a little bit more guidance to that one person who might be confused by this. What about coal? Does everybody ... >> [Inaudible] >> So if, again, if there's any chance that somebody would not know what that means then the tool tip could provide some additional explanation. But the tool tip also, it's the only thing the screen reader user is going to read so if CUL [assumed spelling] is like or C-U-L or however it's pronounced, is part of the Purdue vocabulary and everybody here knows that term then, screen reader users should hear that term too, perhaps, with some additional explanation as to what goes in there in case there is somebody who doesn't know. Yes. >> On the [inaudible] area the radio buttons are [inaudible] grouped together. >> Hmm-mm. >> Is there a way to get a specific tool tip per radio button so that we know that AY is down here and Y is this one here [inaudible] >> Hmm-mm. Yeah, so look at ... >> I found how to do that. I basically, applied tool tip to the entire grouping, not to each specific radio button. >> Yeah, and that's true. So we're going to have to talk about radio buttons in a moment. That one and the one above have a unique -- there's a unique approach to how we handle those. There's also another thing that I discovered, if you're talking through this document and you get down here to J and it doesn't have a source of salary thing that was mentioned, when you get to the first percent field and you hit tab again, you don't go anywhere and then you get your jump -- you hit tab again, you go direct to the next percent, you hit tab again, again, you don't go anywhere, it turns out that's because there are two percent fields here and two percent fields here, so their stacked on top of one another. And so you just need to get rid of one of them and keep the other. So let's turn our attention to radio buttons. And the best way to find out what's going on here with these is to turn on read out loud and read out loud by the way doesn't work when you're in form F mode, even when you're in preview mode within that, so you have to close up close form editing then, go to view read out loud and the first field you should tab into is that top one, the select one field with those two options. [ Inaudible comment] >> Could you repeat where we are? I'm sorry. >> We're reading out loud and tabbing into the radio buttons. You want to see how the radio buttons are read. So try it first and while you're at it, tab on down to the pay [assumed spelling] area field also. And I should also tell you, to give you a hint with that, when you're in a radio button you tab into the set of radio buttons and then you use arrow keys to select a radio button. That's the key word model for how those are intended to work. [ Background noise ] >> So what are you discovering? [ Multiples speak ] >> It's the -- this one's kind of hard to answer. Yes or no, without knowing what the question is. The second one ... >> [Inaudible comment] >> Yes, the gray area is just -- it's the -- I like to think of it as the optimistic button. The only answer is yes. Okay, so we got -- we have two different problems. Because this one did say pay area, right? For each one of those. This one did not say select one, so we know the first one we don't know what the question is, the second one we know what the question is, but all -- well, in both cases the answers are wrong. So we need to correct the answers so the first one has answers of new and revised and the second has answers of academic year fiscal year and bi-weekly. So let's start with the first one. Again, we go to forms, edit and just double click on that first radio button or right click and select properties. First thing that needs to be ascertained with radio buttons and these are actually okay, in this case, but sometimes people make mistakes on radio buttons and give them different names, but the name of this radio button set is form, because you're selecting a particular form. Both of these radio buttons should have the name form then. So click on both to make sure that's true. Sometimes people will drag two radio buttons. They'll name one of them like form one and the other one form two. Then you get two different radio buttons that are different fields, which means the user could click on both of them since their mutually exclusive, you need to have the same name for both. Now, the tool tip for radio buttons should be the overall prompt for both. So when it says select one and since we're doing that for the first radio button and that, this is the same field as the second one then, when we come over here and click on the second one the tool tip is there already, so we don't have to type it in twice. So what solves the problem of not having a question for that first one and that will say select one or get to that radio button. It doesn't solve the problem of the option being wrong. So the option should be new, but instead it is yes or no that's solved within options. So for radio buttons we go over here to the options tab, the radio button choice. Make sure you're on the right one. For the one that says new, the radio button choice is yes. That actually should say new. For the second one, the radio button choice is no, but it actually should be revised. [ Background noise ] >> Does that make sense? So this radio button choices matches what the user actually sees visually. So using that logic see what you can do with the pay area radio buttons. [ Background noise ] >> Does anybody have questions? [ Background noise ] >> It said yes. >> Oh, it did. Oh, that's okay. [Laughter] >> So it could be also, again, if you spelled it out. >> [Inaudible] [ Background noise ] >> So just to review here, the pay area. You've got tool tip, a pay area for every one of these, but the options are different. One of them is academic year. One of them is fiscal year and one of them is bi-weekly. And if you preview, what happens is when you point to all of these -- oh, that doesn't work does it? Because the tool tip shows up, but not the option. So that's not [inaudible] beneficial for mouse users after all, but it is for screen user readers, if you navigate through and listen to it with read out loud then, it will say -- well, we think it should say pay area academic year, pay area fiscal year, pay area bi-weekly. And that's crystal clear what needs -- what the options are and how to fill that out. >> I wouldn't [inaudible] >> The pay area? >> [Inaudible] >> Up here, it is select one. >> Yeah, I know, but you want them to select one in the pay area? >> Yeah, it because it's a radio button and the screen reader will identify it as a radio button ... >> Oh. >> ... then users know what they're supposed to do with that field type. At least that's the assumption. But sometimes if you have the space for it, this is kind of a crowded form already, but sometimes it's helpful just to provide additional instruction like check all apply. If you get check boxes and they allow multiple choices or check only one, if you get radio buttons and they can only check one. So we [inaudible] that people understand forms because they see them all the time on the web and so forth and you know, radio buttons check boxes have their particular function, but it's not always true providing additional instructions will help. [ Background noise ] >> You also have signatures and those are not interactive fields in this form, so you can fill out the form, but I assume the idea is you have to actually get a written signature. Print it out, sign it. If we wanted to have a signature to have actual signature that somebody could fill out here to make this complete then ... [ Background noise ] >> Go into edit form, go down to where the signature fields would go ... [ Background noise ] >> And you have an option over in the forms area to add new field. So you can select all these different types of fields text field, check box, radio button, list box etcetera. You could just do a text field if you really relaxed about signatures and you just want somebody to sign their name and you know, that's -- you're going to consider that good. Probably, most forms are at the higher [inaudible] are not going to be as relaxed as that, but if that's too hard to do, just grab a text field plop it into the signature area. What would we name this? Signature? >> [Inaudible] >> Okay, individual signature, because we have four signature fields, or signature individual and then, after you enter the name, when it prompts you for that you can click on all properties, that'll take you to the properties area where you enter your tool tip. Similarly, the tool tip can't just say signature you're going to have to be more specific. Signature of individual requesting leave. [ Background noise ] >> One last thing that you might notice is that as you are adding new fields, they are automatically inserted into the tab order in a place that makes sense. Now, that would have been true in earlier versions of Acrobat there [inaudible] just toss it down to the end and then you have to drag them and find a place for them. An alternative to adding a new -- to add a text field would be for tighter security, add a digital signature. Plop that in place and the process is the same just give it a meaningful name. This one we'll call signature supervisor and the tool tip would be signature of department head or supervisor. [ Background noise ] >> And supporting a digital signature is not as simple as just flopping that into place and you know, everything works magically and that it's more than what we're going to get into here, but if we, if we serve it close form editing [inaudible] to actually fill out this form. When we get to the signature field then we click in that field then, that pops up with a dialogue box and it walks you through the process of, I want to sign this document using then, you either have a digital signature on file already or you can create a new one and I'm not that clear myself on how [inaudible] validates that you are who you say you are, but it will ask you some things and ultimately the end result of this process will be you having digital signature and the recipient of this form can either chose to click accept that or they'll have some sort of procedure in place for accepting digital signatures. But from an accessibility standpoint, the thing to know is that this is an accessible process that when the screen reader gets to that field it will say digital signature and prompt you to press enter to continue and when you do so, you just get dialog boxes that are standard in any software application and you can interact with this very easily so, so ... [ Background noise ] >> Okay, any questions about form two? Yes. >> Can you put the headings and their descriptions [inaudible] >> That's a good question. For this form, since it is largely a form then, some of the other stuff is secondary but this way the process is, you do everything you can to make the form accessible and then you go back into this document and do the other stuff that we talked about in the document portion. So you start looking at, you know, whether the heading has some tab associated with it, but make sure that it is a heading and that the other mark up is in place that needs to be there. You know, if there's a logo or some image on the page that needs to have alternate text, that needs to happen. So when you get out of the forms editing mode and get back into, you know, your document editing mode and your document editing work flow. So the thing with forms to keep in mind is that, you could get a form like this, if a person opens up the request for access from campus form, they're expecting that this is a form they're going to interact with it as a form and the first thing they probably will do is tab to the first form field or withdraw PDF keys like F, for form, which will take you to the first form field and so [inaudible] they enter forms mode and everything they do from that point on is navigated from form field to form field to form field. So they're not going to access any other content on the page. So when that other content is more important is when you've got a form that is part of a larger document, so you've got you know some explanatory text at the top and then, a form at the bottom then, the users probably are going read that explanatory text first before they get to the form section so. But that's -- but there's where you get the second step in the process after you've made your form accessible -- certainly make your documents. Any questions about example two or anything we covered so far? Okay, why don't we take a quick breather. Come back in say 10 minutes three o'clock, and then we'll move on to the next example. [ Background noise ] >> If you missed the announcements about LiveCycle Designer. go ahead and start that now for the next 10 minutes before we get started. >> [Inaudible] >> We've got people starting LiveCycle Designer, because in here, we have one of the apps and so it's [inaudible] >> Okay. >> [Inaudible] [ Background noise ] >> [Inaudible] >> You did. Good. >> [Inaudible] >> [Inaudible] >> So you say you've got it all trained with other teenagers, [inaudible] >> [Inaudible] >> I'm trying to remember where I was. I just completely gave out. Somehow or another, another day of workshops. >> [Inaudible] >> It's just, yeah. [Inaudible] [ Inaudible comment ] >> I don't know because [inaudible] but [inaudible] That's like what was here [inaudible] >> Okay, so once you're in on -- a radio button, then the idea is you use your arrow keys within those radio buttons. >> [Inaudible] >> [Inaudible] right or down. You don't [inaudible] >> Okay. Now, if you were [inaudible] >> Shift tab. >> Okay. Yeah. >> The trouble is you need to run LiveCycle on your machine. >> I should do that tonight. >> Because I don't -- I mean, I know you [inaudible], but I guess on this machine, it's going to be like new, right? >> Yeah. We need to talk too, about JAWS. There's [inaudible] could be installed [inaudible] >> Yeah. >> Because I can run it off of here [inaudible] >> Yeah. >> It'll be a lot easier than getting it installed [inaudible] >> I'll try to send an email today that -- to see if we can [inaudible] even if that works and that's nice, but it's a little more convenient if it's on the instructor machine. >> Yeah. >> Okay, lets go ahead and open up Example Three. >> [Background noise] >> And consult your work flow. >> [Background noise] >> Anybody here from the WAG Program [assumed spelling] or involved with the WAG Program? >> [Background noise] >> Is this interactive? >> [In unison] Hmm-mm. >> Okay, so if we assume we want to make it interactive or the WOW people want us to make it interactive for them, then we follow -- since the answer is no, 1A says, "If no, proceed to creating accessible PDF forms using Acrobat Pro." That section tells us how to make this interactive. We need to go to tools, forms, and create. Then, we'll ask just a couple of questions. We answer, use an existing file. And we want to use the current document and then, that's all it needs. It proceeds to go through the form, figure out which things are form fields based on the way they look. And then it creates a form out of it -- an interactive form. Sometimes it does a pretty good job and typically, there are a few things that it misses, so then the task is go through and repair the things that it was not able to do automatically. So what kind of things do you see after you do on your document? Go ahead and create the form and then when you see that needs to be repaired? >> [Inaudible comment] >> [Inaudible] so state, I didn't see at all, we'll have to add that field. Zip is P, email is L, ethnicity is T. >> The first one is name the last [inaudible] >> Okay, so I just saw that as one field when, in fact, it's three. So, let's talk about that one first. We'll just kind of go through and one-by-one, we'll deal with all these issues. How are we going to divide name into three name fields? >> [Inaudible] >> What's that? So this one can become last name. Just grab the edges of it and stretch it over here to where the last name field should end. Go under properties and change the name of it and the tool tip. One thing about field names, when it automatically goes through and gives these fields names, it's names them with spaces. So if you got home space home and instructor's space name, and in most contexts spaces are not allowed for field names, or for IDs, or for those sorts of things. Potentially, you know, you might even go in and access these field names programmatically. And I -- it seems to be valid for PDF, but I always like to name my fields with no spaces just to be consistent with the program languages in general, otherwise, you run into some problems later. Well, this particular form field you run into some problems later so ... >> [Inaudible comment] >> What's that? >> [Inaudible] software [inaudible] explore. >> It'll read it if it's actually apart of the text then, it'll read it as underscore or [inaudible] that's usually how it's pronounced. So, so as you're creating new fields or changing old ones then you know, name those fields without spaces. Convention is upper case, whenever you have a new word in the middle then, upper case that new word. And we're not really being standard in this document, because it's got, you know, all sorts of -- some fields that are lower case and some that are upper case, and some with spaces and some without, and so. So then for first, first name and middle name you would do what we did in the last form, which is add a new field. It'll be a text field, flop that into place, resize it. You could also copy and paste so if you want to just take the last name field, copy that, paste it a couple times. And the advantage of that is you could just start it at the right height, and then all you have to do is, you know, change the width a little bit. The disadvantage is that you also have to change, make sure that you change all of the stuff that has to be changed, the field name, tool tip. So you got a few more things to remember. You could also right click somewhere, any where on the -- in the document and select -- it gives you all those fields right there too. So text field and then plop it into place. So there -- usually, there are three to four different ways to do something. [ Silence ] >> [Inaudible] for the area code and for the seven digit number. >> Hmm-mm. >> Can the name be the same of the [inaudible] home phone, area code [inaudible] >> That a good question. You could have the same name for two text fields because then they're just going to conflict, but the way that this is set up as two separate fields, where you have one for area code, one for everything but the area code, it's a little awkward. Let's look for a second at what we could do with the home phone field, the larger home phone field. It's currently called undefined. We go to the properties for that. First of all, I'll call it home phone and the tool tip depending on what we said to do with this, might be maybe, just I don't know, phone number. We've got area code before that, and home phone area code and hit tab, phone number without the area code. So what you need to sway without the area code or whether it's -- you can save it too with that as a user since you already entered the area code. But there's another way that we can approach it, potentially, and that is, under format -- there are a bunch of different types formats that we can select, predefined formats for different fields. One of those is special and that includes a phone number field, as well as zip code, zip plus four, social security, and arbitrary mask. So, if we set it up with the phone number as it's format, then go to preview and see what effect that has. Then when we tab into phone number and start typing in a phone number, then it automatically puts the area code in parentheses, the dash. So that's all built in, so that's kind of nice. So it'd be nice if we had just one home phone field that had that formatting capability and then we'd know to have it broken down into to separate fields. The problem is that now that we've added that, we still have this. And what do we do with it? We can get rid of the field, but we still have parentheses and an underscore. What's that? >> Why do that? >> Why not? [laughter] And that you know, there might be some truth to that actually. >> There is a way to turn into an object [inaudible] >> Yeah. Yeah, you can also, let's see, I guess we need to get closed form editing, you can go sometimes into content and edit document text. Every once in awhile that will work where you can actually change the text, remove stuff, you know correct typos. But that's every once in awhile. So that's not going to work, but we could add a box that matches the background and replace it. When you lay it -- layer it over the top of this to get rid of it. We might be able to drag this existing field so that it lays over top of this, and instead of having no field, actually I have a field. So that, that field then masks those parentheses. Now, actually. as I'm thinking about it, it seems like the best approach. >> [Inaudible comment] >> Yeah. If you have the access to the original source, sometimes that's the best. [ Silence ] >> Once I add a little eyedropper tool, so it's kind of hard to get the right background color. But we just sort of -- this looks like it's going to be close. So we, we lost our underline. We can probably put that back, but this thing [inaudible] done the trick. So now, I have one home phone field. >> I have a question. How do [inaudible] this program [inaudible] skips [inaudible] >> It's kind of hard to say. It, it's just looking at your form and just [inaudible] or it's looking for certain things. Those are both small, so ... >> [Inaudible] okay, [inaudible] small. >> Since we know that you can add this formatting, like the way we just did with the phone, you can do the same thing with some of these others too. Like date of birth, maybe, you want date of birth to appear in a certain format. So you can go into edit, date of birth, format, select a date, and then choose which format that you want the content to appear in. Maybe you want month to date and the four character year. And then, when you preview that if we were to enter -- and any sort of recognized date format, then it'll automatically reformat to meet our needs. So that's going to be handy when it gets delivered to us and it needs to be entered -- it needs to be ultimately end up in a database in a particular format, then we know that it's already there. If somebody enters something that it doesn't understand at all, and it isn't there to convert, then I'm not sure what to do. The LiveCycle Designer will see that we can pop up with an error code, and I'm sure you can do that here too probably, but that's where we sort of compare Acrobat Pro versus LiveCycle Designer, we'll see something's that maybe you know, one tool can do better than the other. >> When I entered in the valid format, a JavaScript window came up and said, "Invalid day time. Please ensure that it should match this format." >> Okay. >> I don't know. >> Okay, we got kind of some built in error checking. Let's jump down to the bottom. We got this lunch thing happening. Where currently it says, "Students, student plus student equals undefined." Do we want to try to change that to something? First of all, this is not the student field, right? >> [In unison] no. >> What is that? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Okay, or is it sub guest? Or is it looking for a quantity, right? >> [In unison] hmm-mm. >> But maybe it should be number of guests. And then for tool tip, keep in mind that the person attached to this, they're going to [inaudible] from elsewhere from the previous question. They're not going to see lunch. They're not going to see student plus. So how can we express this so that they can get what they need in order to fill in this quantity? >> [Inaudible comment] >> The number of guests for lunch or lunch excluding -- it might not be you who's filling this out, it might be somebody filling this out for the student, so excluding the student. >> And a guest on some -- additional guest. You could bring three people and [inaudible] >> And it says on here that [inaudible] includes lunch for you and guest, but I think they still want to know how many guests you're bringing? >> And the total number of [inaudible] anywhere else. >> Yeah. >> So what you really need to do is for where it says, "You're registering to include [inaudible] so you know how to count them when you're calculating the [inaudible] >> I would read that as me and my guest are free, this is how many other people I'm bringing at $10 a piece. >> Yeah. >> Additional reservation. >> That's a very [inaudible] statement. It's just clarifying, and so again, form design. Design a form or whatever, it's going to be clear, you're asking questions in a way that's going to be clear. >> Can you do a formula instead of a box for another one might equal [inaudible] >> Yeah, [inaudible] come up and have a calculator in the calculate tab. So we're going to look at how to calculate this field and then, we should add a field down here for the dollar sign that also calculates. Because it doesn't make any sense for them to fill that in, you know. Student plus number of guests, so you fill in the number of guests and then you have to add yourself to that number to get the next number. Somebody's going to mess that up and get the wrong answer. It's pretty simple math, but -- so this tool tip, for our purposes I think is probably okay. Number of guest for lunch excluding the student -- we should also, though put some restrictions on that field because then we're going to calculate with it. Somebody is going to come in here and list the guests by name, separated with comma, and we're not going to be able to calculate with that. So we got to make sure that this is a number. We do that in the format tab, that has no decimal places, assuming that people can't bring half a guest. And we can add some validation. Field has to be in a range from zero to whatever, they probably won't bring more than nine, let's say, sort of arbitrarily, but -- and under options we can limit the number of characters to make sure that they only enter between zero and nine. So, there's lots of charts here and a lot of times when you're entering fields, you know, you can just sort of walk through and look at all of the options and see which ones are applicable to your particular needs. And now, we got something relatively complex, probably, you go into preview. Try entering somebody's name, nope it won't let me do that. I can enter nine, I can enter any number, I can enter zero. So that works. Now, we need to address the -- what we call the second field here besides that. Total, total people. >> Total attending. >> Total attendees, or attending. And what about our tool tip? Total number of people attending. >> [Inaudible] >> What was that? >> [Inaudible] >> I don't know if that really matters here, because this is going to be a calculated field and the user has no, no need to -- they can't enter anything here, because we want to calculate it based on what they entered into the first field. >> [Inaudible] >> Good, good question. We have this checkbox that says, "Read Only." We could check that and hope that the screen reader will say, "Read only" while trying to identify that information to us. But as it turns out, that doesn't happen necessarily. I haven't tried every screen reader, but I have yet to see one that says, "Read only." So I don't know whether Adobe is not exposing that information, or whether it's the screen reader's fault. But it seems that in the tool tip we need to tell the user that this is read only. And not only that, but don't want to make it read only because when we do so that removes it from the tab order. So we can't tab to it to find out and hear what the total is. That might not be so critical for the total number of people, but we're going to have the same issue when we get to the dollar value. That's going to be calculated. We don't want people to go in and, you know, lower their price, so it's going to be a read only field. But if we actually make it read only, they can't tab to it and find out how much they owe. So we won't check read only, but we will say that this is read only and maybe we'll say calculated field or something to that effect. So they know what's going on here. Now, to do the calculation, we just go to the calculate tab and we have a few options. We can select just a simple sum, or product, or average, or minimum, or maximum involving existing fields, and then we would select those fields. But that doesn't allow us to do actual math, other than those options. So what we want is, we just want to add one student to the number of guests, correct? So to do that we just type in the field, which is number of guests plus one. And this is why I said, "Don't put the spaces in field names," because when you get into this kind of context, I have found a way to specify a field name and a formula, if it has spaces. Intuitive world would think you could wrap it in quotes, since it doesn't seem to support space names and field names, for spaces and field names. Wrapping it in quotes doesn't work, wrapping it in parentheses doesn't work, and replacing the spaces with underscores doesn't work. So I'm guessing you can't use field names that have spaces in formulas. But this, I think, should do the trick of adding the one student to the number of guests to get the total attendees. And then if we preview it just to make sure, works if we have zero students, works if we have one student, works if we enter one guest, works if we have nine guests. So now, we need to calculate how much this is all to going to cost. You go back into edit, there's no field over there yet, so you're going to have to add a new one under text field. And we'll position it and what should we name this one? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Amount due, but this is just the lunch amount due, right? Because there's another amount that's due later and it's total. We'll do lunch amount due. Tool tip. You can say amount due for lunch, however, we have a little bit of a problem. This calculation is going to return a value. We can tell it to make that a number and we can tell it to include decimal places. But if we tell it to use the dollar sign, that's [inaudible] screen reader users, it may say, you know, $30 as opposed to 30, but then we got two dollar signs. How do we deal with that? It's not a big deal, we did it before with the phone number, all right. Just drag that until it covers up the dollar sign, and then we need to paint it with a fill color that approximately matches and it might end up, sort of yeah -- painted over or duct taped together a little bit, but it'll meet our needs. So now, the calculation. How do we calculate, we know that it's $10 per person except for the student and first guest? >> [Inaudible comment] >> And so which field? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Total attending times 10, but two of those total attending don't have to pay. >> Total attending minus two times that. >> So is everybody satisfied with that? >> [Inaudible comment] >> If I'm not bringing any guests, I'd get money back. [laughter] So what we're actually going to have to do is build a custom calculation script and this is where we enter JavaScript. How many of you are comfortable with JavaScript? A few hands go up, mostly used for creating forms. This gets you in a little over your head. >> [Inaudible] web person. >> Yeah. >> [Inaudible] >> Yeah, for this one we just need an if, we need to do if, number of guests equals zero then you calculate it one way. And you know, if it's greater then one you multiply times ten, otherwise, the result is zero, so you've done it up with a negative number. There's a tricky way to actually get at the field name and I'm just kind of, trying draw this forth from distant memory. If we created a new field called non-guests, I think it's something like this, that hit field, and then in parentheses and quotes you put the number of guests, it's the name of the field you're after, dot value. So then, we created a new variable called non-guests that has that value that the user entered and then, you say if num guests is greater than two, then the current field ... [ Silence ] >> ...value equals num guest times 10. Otherwise, the current field's value equals zero. So, well, I don't know if it'll work or not, we'll give it a spin. We have two guests and we get money back and if we have no guests we get money back. So everybody wins. [Laughter] Anyway, it's not a JavaScript class, so we won't spend time trying to trouble shoot that any further. You can do calculations, you can do validations, you can force things into the right format. All of this helps to make forms easier for the user, which helps accessibility, accessibility for everyone. So let's close that and open up Example Four. [ Silence ] >> Is this formula active? >> [Inaudible] >> Yes, [inaudible] It does not have existing fields button also there's a clue whether it's active or not. You got fields highlighted, you know there are fields there. Is the tab order intuitive? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Kind of jumps around a bit, huh? Skips back with the in staff. When you get down to the table, then you got some interesting -- particularly, if you have higher fields highlighted. It's kind of a dance floor. So we need to correct that, the order, the read order. Tools, forms, edit. I've noticed that edit has changed. This is now -- this is edit in Designer, not just edit. [Inaudible] was created, this form was created in the LiveCycle Designer. We go to control D, well it say that this document was created in PDF Maker 8.1 from Word, but ultimately, they created the form interactivity in LiveCycle Designer, and that's going to effect what we can do with it at this point. We can't edit it hear using the forms tools that we have been using so far today. It's one or the other. Use a LiveCycle Designer, create in LiveCycle Designer, that's where you have to do your work. If you created it as a PD using Acrobat Pro, that's where you do your work. And the two are separate. So that's a good transition then, to LiveCycle Designer. We should have that open, I think you all opened that at the start of the second half here. So, let's look at that for a moment. We can open that particular form, we'll spend a little bit time with that, but mostly I think we want to start from scratch and build our own. But go to open and navigate to PDF workshop folder and grab Example Four. [ Silence ] >> This -- I got it going. [ Silence ] >> So it's going to give you some grief about bonds, I'm just going to say okay, and okay. >> Okay. [ Silence ] >> We all there? Okay, for tab order, you can go to view at the bottom of the view menu, the show tab order. And it gives you some help. There's always quite a bit of help to be found in LiveCycle Designer, so you can read that or you can dismiss it. But pretty similar to what we've seen elsewhere, where you've got all the fields numbered and you kind of get a sense for what the read order's going to be. Faculty and staff eventually, we would have tabbed to those at 26 and 27. This doesn't allow us to move them around. That's a separate place. You go to window, tab order, again, it gives you some instruction. But that opens up a panel with all the fields listed by tab order and just like we did before you would just drag things around until they end up in the appropriate order. So let's not do that. I just wanted to point out that you can do it. A bigger question is, when you got this sort of layout, where you have a table and a form inside a table, then there's always kind of a question, "How do I, how do I mark that up? What kind of tool tips or labels do I put for this, and this, and this, and this?" It's actually a pretty kind of question is HTML, Web designers are [inaudible] debating what's the best strategy for addressing this kind of thing. Because a user might be interacting with this as a table, where their reading the headers and as they navigate through the table using table commands with the screen reader. The screen reader will read the table header that's associated with that data cell. But since the primary function of this is a form, rather than a document, people are probably navigating using forms mode, not tables mode. So those are two mutually exclusive modes of operation with different key strokes. So as the person is navigating in forms mode, they're hitting tab to go to field, to field, to field. And they're depending that on labels, or in [inaudible] PDF tool tips. So they're not actually, getting the tip or header information. So that means that those label headers have to be included in whatever we come with for a tool tip. So what we would use for a tool tip for let's say, this middle cell right there? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Okay, okay. So this is previewing how multiple consulting gate that you're supposed to record them all, each one will be on a row. So you could say, for the first cell, you could say, name of business slash organization, one. Or first, first business or organization name or something. And then the estimated time consulting gate number one, estimated frequency consulting gate number one. And then same thing here except it'd be number two, all the way across that row. And here it'll be number three. >> [Inaudible comment] explain how much time -- the time and frequency [inaudible] what kind of data [inaudible] >> Is that what it says in the paragraph above? >> Yeah, you have to give that information [inaudible] >> Well, yes, they're probably not going to know it, but having you communicate that in a tool tip, that's pretty challenging. So now, this is where probably a user is going to have to jump from forms mode into just document reading mode. They're going to have to access all this instructional text, because there's a lot of it, more than in anything in the form we've seen. So that's where it's going to be critical that we have not only forms markup, but that we have a good heading structure and, you know, that people can read the text in the document, in addition to accessing the form. This is where LiveCycle Designer actually has a bit of a problem. If we -- let's close this and go file, new. We're going to start from scratch. If we select a template, because that's unavailable, we can create a new form based on a template. With the templates that they provide and they have accessible forms in them, but they also have surrounding content that is not accessible. And so the problem with that well, is that it's not accessible, but also to make it accessible we need to go to use the tools we have in Acrobat Pro. That's where we can go and manipulate text structure and add headings and do all that kind of stuff. But we can't do that with the LiveCycle Designer file. The only way that we can manipulate things in a LiveCycle Designer file is in LiveCycle Designer. So for form accessibility, we need to start from scratch, build everything ourselves and when we do that, we can be sure that we built everything, you know, that's accessible. So let's start with a blank form and we'll just create a simple form that has everything we need. Just accept the defaults, then it gives us a nice clean slate with which to start. You know whenever we're on the right an object library that is quite extensive. We've got a lot more things that we can drag into our form than we have available to us in Acrobat. And let's start with some text. So we grab just text not a text field and we'll place it up here. This will be the heading at the top of our form and once we place it, we can drag it all the way across and then change the word text to something more meaningful like, my sample LiveCycle Designer form and then, we can make it big and bold and centered, which we all know is the right thing to do, right. Because if you marked up word you don't want something big and bold and centered if it's a heading you'd choose the A form style and then, you change that style so that it looks big, bold and centered, correct. The key is just, you know, identify this as a heading. It [inaudible] worked out really [inaudible] LiveCycle Designer. There was no heading style, so it's just big, bold and centered, but we can identify it as a heading, so we just sort of have to that as a separate process and that is, if you go to window and accessibility, the shortcut is shift F6 good to memorize that because we'll need it later. Later down the road, we now have an accessibility panel. It acts like it's a little now, it's sort of crowded in there, so if you pull it out you can undock it from the right side and let it float over your work space. All we need to make this a heading is define the row as heading level one. And it's got heading levels, heading level one through six, right there. So we do that and now, this is not just big bold text it actually is a header. Now, let's add some form controls. Maybe start with a text field. This time choose text field, not text. Draw yet on your work space, change the prompt from text field to something else like your name and then we can go and we can edit some of the characteristics of this field within the objects tab. That is in the same little window here with accessibility. If that disappeared, you can get it back [inaudible] window. You've got object F shift F7, accessibility shift F6. Here, the object tab, we got three tabs you got field, value and binding, and you need to kind of look through all of those, also, expand your window a little bit to make sure everything fits. [ Silence ] >> Most of the text we tagged as a prompt for this is your name, so that shows up here as a caption. I would think that since that's part of the object, but the screen reader would recognize that caption and you wouldn't need to do anything further like, add a tool tip, but that's actually not the case. Screen readers don't seem to recognize caption. So you do have to still add a tool tip to this, just like we did in Acrobat Pro. We also should look at the binding and click on the binding tab. That field that it created is text field one. This is a behind the scenes name, so this doesn't have anything to do with accessibility, but text field one isn't very meaningful. So we probably should name that something like your name, so if we see that later and need to revert to then, we'll know what that is. [ Silence ] >> So for the tool tip, we click on the accessibility tab and there's our tool tip option. So we can enter your name as the tool tip. It also has another option and this is something that LiveCycle Design has -- Designer has that the Acrobat Pro does not and that is this optional custom screen reader text. It may be that we want mouse users to hover over a form field to see a little helpful hints of some sort, but maybe we want more detail that we provide for screen reader users that really isn't necessary for a mouse user. So we actually saw that in the earlier form we had, you know, long blocks of instructional text. We copied and pasted it into our tool tip. Mouse users can see that text already. They can see that prompt on the screen, so they don't need that big text to be replicated in a tool tip. So it's actually nice to have that separation here for screen readers yet the instructional text, but mouse users don't necessarily have to have anything. So you can actually put your name down here in the custom screen reader text. So which one of those fields do you use just depends on whether you want what you're providing to appear as a tool tip or not. >> Could you put like a first name, last name, middle initial all on one line? >> Hmm-mm. >> Could you put that there? That way they'd know to enter last name, first name, middle or however you wanted it. >> Yeah, it's better if you want all three pieces of information, I mean in this case yeah, we're pretty relaxed and we just want them to put a name. We're not going to separate them out, but in a real form for name you probably would have three separate fields for last name, first name, but yeah, so you actually, wanted all three of them, I wouldn't have one field and then more instructions at the end. [Inaudible] not to enter all three in [inaudible] order because people are always not going to follow instructions. Yeah. >> So on the screen you've got up, I can have something in tool tips for most users and something in the custom screen reader text for screen reader users. >> Correct. Yeah, so there is a danger there. So you need to sort of watch out for -- you know to provide help text in the tool tip that a mouse user is going to see, that you built it clearly in the screen rigger test. If you include something else in the screen reader text, because then you've created, you know, less accessibility. You've created something that some people are going have access to that others are not. So [inaudible] the screen reader will often use one or the other, but there maybe times when you do want to provide just a little bit of something for a mouse user and a lot more supplement for screen reader user, in which case, the two would be different. You also have control over the precedents, so by the false, if you enter something into the custom screen reader text, that takes screen reader precedence, so that's going get delivered to the screen reader, but if you wanted it to behave differently, you actually have control over that. So you could tell it that screen readers should always pay attention to the tool tip first. Or the screen reader should read the caption. So what's, what's more options probably than we won't even try to mess with, but it is nice in some context to have that separation. So let's try -- maybe we want to know the person's birth date. What kind of field would we use for a person's birth date? So glance at all your choices there. What do you think? Is that the text field? >> [Inaudible comment] >> Take the time field. >> There is a big time field, as it turns out. So let's grab the date and time field and drag it out there. Change the label, or the caption, as it's called here, to date of birth. [ Silence ] >> Shift F7 brings up our object and accessibility palette. You should be able to binding, make sure that you have a meaningful field name. Instead of daytime field one, I'm going to call it DOB for date of birth. [ Silence ] >> In the field tab, underneath objects, we have an option for patterns. So we did this in Acrobat Pro too, but here it is in LiveCycle Designer. Some choices of how you want your date to appear and let's say we want leading zeros for month and day, full character year, and we pop that in. Go over to accessibility, tool tip, and you say date of birth or since MAC users already have that visible on screen that could go under custom screen reader text. [ Silence ] >> And we have here a tab that says, "Preview PDF." If we click on that, we get a run-time error. Just thought I would show you that so you can prepare yourself. [Laughter] And then our form designer stops working, [inaudible] prepare yourself. >> [Inaudible comment] >> So instead you can -- but I lost all my work. [Laughter] Instead you can save your form. It'd be -- save it to the class of the PDF Workshop folder and open it up in Acrobat and so switch back and forth between applications and see -- just see what you can see and experiment and try tabbing through it. Try reading it with Read Out Loud and we can probably just have some free form play time for a bit. And try different field types, and test them with Read Out Loud. See what works. See what kind of problems come up. [ Silence ] >> [Inaudible] lifted any check boxes, have they? >> I don't think so. >> So if you add the check boxes, you need to include a prompt, set up a group of check boxes -- what's a good check box question? Anybody feeling creative? >> [Inaudible comment] >> I will attend or I will not attend. It is possible to check both. So if it's possible to check more than one, then, it should be check box. If you should only be able to check one, it should be radio buttons. Kind of the rule of forms. So ... [ Silence ] >> ... a few of my favorite things, so then I'd just go to the text field. >> Text or text field? >> Text -- text object. And I put three check boxes and I'm going to just arbitrarily list a few things here. [ Silence ] >> Do you have to check all five? >> [Laughter] so we should, but not the obvious, because it's a check box, but again, the more instruction you provide, for those who it's not obvious for ... [ Silence ] >> Then we get to object and we get accessibility with that. That's a check boxes, as even though they seem kind of similar to radio buttons, they are fundamentally different, because of the fact that you can check more than one. So remember we talked earlier about the need for radio buttons, they all have the same name, not true of check boxes. So I'm going to call this save things one or save things pizza. That's the natural field name for binding and for accessibility, that prompt that we just added, a few of my favorite things, check all that apply, is just text. It's not associated exclusively with these fields, so we've placed it in close proximity to these fields, so the visual user will be able to see, that's the prompt that goes with these, but it's separate. So we need to include it in our -- either our tool tip or our custom screener text. We need to include that prompt, you know, or something that will help you to understand why they would check pizza more than [inaudible] PDF forms. They need to know what the question is. So what are we going to use for screen reader text for each of these? [ Silence ] >> You could just repeat the text that's there. A few of my favorite things. Check all that apply -- pizza, but what we do have for all of them, that's going to be kind of cumbersome for the user. It's going to be excessively verbose. The first one they're going to hear is the one -- is the first one. So they get into this set of check boxes, the year, the full prompt. Maybe that's enough then, but I don't need to hear that every time. But maybe they should be reminded just so they're sure they are in the right set of fields. So [inaudible] thought of that, some of my favorite things, boilermakers and favorite things, PDF forms. [ Silence ] >> So it's a little bit in theory here, it's kind of a hack, adding the tool tips [inaudible] It's inferior to HTML in that in HTML, we have field sets, which allow us to group related fields together. Then the field set, we have legend, which is the prompt for that field set. So then, we can add each check box that we have a label and so screen readers know how to handle field sets and legends and they do it pretty gracefully. Where when you enter the field set on this first field, they'll read the prompt, then they'll read the value and then when you go to the next one, they don't read the prompt again. They only read that when you first enter the field set and that way you don't get all redundant information. They do read the prompt again, regardless of which field you're on, when you check something -- so if I go down and I check PDF forms then, it will repeat the prompts and say PDF forms, check box checked, so that I know for sure that I have just checked, you know, what I've just checked. So that's a real good model for how this interaction should take place. We can't detain that with this -- without -- we could probably do it with some scripting, but you know, that could becomes kind of burdensome then when you get into it. But -- so we're doing our best to come up with tool tips that kind of approximates what you can do in HTML and there are two things. Then that goes back then to HTML really being the best format for doing a lot of things, including, interactive forms. But if we really need to use a PDF then, you can try to approximate what HTML can do. >> I do have a question. >> Hmm-mm. >> So in essence, what really the best way -- we have to have PDF is to do it through the Adobe Pro interactive that way and there will be an easier way of making a [inaudible] form, if we have to do a PDF versus even doing it in LiveCycle. I think like LiveCycle there's so many more steps. >> It's possible. Although a lot of people say, who are LiveCycle users, do you favor LiveCycle over doing it the other way? Why do you use LiveCycle? Did anybody want to come to LiveCycle's event? >> That's the first thing that I got. That's before Adobe Pro, I think and now. I've been using it for years. >> Yeah. >> And I think I like the Adobe Pro better. >> Yeah? >> Yeah. The thing here, I think someone just uploaded online to make forms. The LiveCycle would be easier method to make the form. >> Hmm-mm. >> Which it is does make pretty forms, but when -- now, with the accessibility being something we have to do, it looks like there's a better product to make our lives a lot easier. >> Yeah, I'm not going to make that call and say yes, you know, that's a better area code than [inaudible] There actually was a guy and -- what was his name, that you gave your business card to? >> Oh, Judah Brown. >> Judah Brown. He is a LiveCycle enthusiast and really likes just to the power of LiveCycle. He feels it can do a lot more. It's more robust. It's got a lot of functionality. I mean, you can see it right here, the fact that it has so many objects you can put in your form and Adobe doesn't have that range of capabilities. And when you get into validation and scripting and things like, you know, conditional form behaviors or you select one value from a dropdown and that results in some new deals being displayed, kind of like we thought we could do this with HTML now, with JavaScript. You can do that in PDF, pretty easily using LiveCycle Designer -- maybe not easily, but it's got a lot more capability, perhaps, than Acrobat Pro does. So it kind of depends on how sophisticated a form you want and whether you like the interface or not. Accessibility issues, in some ways, this is better in that you've got the separation of tool tips, prompt screener reader text -- that's a nice thing. In other ways, the complexity that we have in making that heading, that's pretty easy in Acrobat Pro, to make something a heading. So there's kind of a trade off. You get some things and you lose some things, but you use one tool or the other. I'm not sure where Adobe is headed with this is my concern. >> LiveCycle? >> Yeah, but it's hard to find anything about it. It comes bundled with Acrobat, but there's isn't a whole lot of information on it, on the Adobe website, as opposed to creating things with Acrobat and it's not available in MAC at all. So it's just a Windows thing. So it had to [inaudible] actually doesn't [inaudible] anymore. Those kinds of -- it's a license -- I've got an evaluation copy, I'm trying to get a licensed version and couldn't get it from the Adobe store, so, so I'm not sure how long it's going to be around. So I wouldn't invest a whole lot necessarily in building up a LiveCycle infrastructure. [Inaudible] >> I think that's why my question here is, would it be easier, you know, sometimes to recreate the form quicker, to recreate, I mean, the newer method than Acrobat Pro versus trying to take an existing LiveCycle and [inaudible] >> Yeah, it may be. And maybe that's a good opportunity to rethink form design too. Like, you know, let's just sit down and figure it out. What exactly do we need to know and how can we best present that so that everybody can very easily figure out how to fill out the form. And do it quickly and painlessly. >> And accessible. We know we have to do it. That's the only given we do know. >> Yeah. >> Can we be accessible? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Can you send LiveCycle -- you cannot edit forms in Adobe Pro, right? >> Correct. >> So why did they do away with LiveCycle? What are you going to do with -- I've got a very, very detailed form I created. Very detailed, I mean ... >> Hmm-mm. >> Very detailed and I don't want to redo it. I really don't want to redo it. So what would be your advice? >> Well, if it's a form that you update still? >> Yes. It's got check boxes, it's got this. We can go on the web and I can show it to you. It was a nightmare creating it. >> Yeah. >> It was a nightmare. >> Yeah, I'm sure you're not alone there, that there are lots of people who have used LiveCycle Designer and created very complex forms and so, so somewhere [inaudible] what is out there in terms of tools that would assist in migrating from this format to another format. Those tools probably exist and if they were to phase this out [inaudible] out, I have no real basis other than just those couple of things that I've been said. To think that that might happen, if it did, I suspect Adobe would provide something that will allow people to save their old forms -- export their old forms into a new format. So -- let's see, what else do we need to talk about. We still have a half hour left. We could leave early or we could just open up to questions about this or about documents or whatever you have questions about. >> I do have a question. It's kind of off-the-wall, but it's been bothering me. I own a hard copy of [inaudible] printers and some of the universities and colleges and [inaudible] form came a question that Adobe -- if you are creating a form, an Adobe form, there's some restrictions on how many times that form can be used. Do you know anything about any restrictions? >> To have ... >> And apparently, Adobe is actively looking at the number space in particular, who's using forms outside of that license agreement. I've never heard such a thing. >> So you've got a form with Adobe Acrobat Pro then, you can only use that ... >> So many times. >> Yeah, I have not heard of that. >> Okay. >> Can you tell me about [inaudible] >> Yes. [ Inaudible comment ] >> And that's if you're submitting to Adobe.com and how they like providing service side -- services or ... >> No, for our forms for oversight. They [inaudible] and not just the data. [ Inaudible comment ] >> Yeah, though, I'm not aware of that. [Inaudible] sounds like a big turnabout. [Inaudible] [ Inaudible comment ] >> Yeah, so they have means. They're the same as [inaudible] Yeah, so that's interesting. And that's what happened to checker [inaudible] yeah, validate the form and give you feedback about it is handy and the accessibility check, you would find something like that? That, that's obviously, beyond the accessibility, something that affects everybody, but accessibility check, you know, would say, you have this problem and here's how you fix it. Whereas, if you're doing it and it sets another error in Acrobat Pro, because you used LiveCycle Designer, you're not going to get that out of the accessibility check in Acrobat Pro, so I don't know if there's a similar validation tool built into LiveCycle Designer. There may be. >> [Inaudible] >> Any questions? Experiences? >> So we're challenged at picking PDFs that already exist and making them accessible, so is it to our advantage to have the source of the document the created in PDF or fix it or is it considered inaccessible? >> It depends on the form, probably. And you've seen what goes in -- at least you've gotten a taste of what goes into retrofitting a form. If you recreate the document, you might as well go back to the source, you can, you know, you can recreate the form if there are some things that need to be addressed, in terms of the form design. >> It probably needs [inaudible] the sources that we have access to, there are probably [inaudible] we're responsible for putting a PDF online and we have to check it first before we put it online. Then, it's more like a special need -- who's responsible for making it accessible? Is it us that are given the PDF file and we find it inaccessible then, give it back to them. Do we need to enforce making it accessible or [inaudible] which is going to happen. >> It seems to me that, that would be up to the department to choose whether they want to make -- take that course of action. Then go back to if I get it from [inaudible] and it's not accessible, I can choose to fix it myself or I can choose to go back to him and then see how long it takes him to fix it and get it back to me. >> We're talking about lots and lots of PDF files that we can't sit down and recreate them [inaudible] it's not an option, so I guess the only thing we could do is try to move it around. We could fix them the best that we can. I don't know how good it gets. >> Hmm-mm. A bunch of great questions. I guess the first response I would have is, as we've said in other sessions, so much more important to take the information we're getting and apply it to things now and in the future, but going backwards is important, but if I'm comparing past versus future, future is more important. To go backwards, it would depend on some other details like, how often does this form that we're talking about going to be used? Is it used 10 times a days, a hundred times a week, you know, that's probably something that pretty good might not be good enough. But if it's only going to be used, you know, once a month or zero times a month, then 10 times in December. And that's a judgment call, but I would think that if we're talking about that kind of activity, good enough is probably good enough. Does that help? >> It would be nice if there was -- for us, a lot of our attention probably [inaudible] go through [inaudible] department and it would be nice if they would review PDF files that are now coming out. Make sure that -- users they're responsible for creating the PDF file and giving it to us or put it on their own server. So I'm sure [inaudible] is for the new documents in preparation and need to be in the [inaudible] so that new documents that we create aren't released without the view chip. >> I would agree with that. >> We have, like, these university documents that are, you know, [inaudible] who is inspecting those? I remember using them as bad examples, almost, who's doing that? >> Right. I've, I've already been in touch with the woman who is in charge of the form 33, that's why we have it as an example today. She was at one of the sessions earlier in the week. So she's going to start on that one. I don't know how much influence she has, but I know that she wasn't the only human resources person who came to one of the sessions. >> I know those documents have a lot of impact. >> They do. >> I mean, those who are at [inaudible] everybody ... >> So I think what you're getting at, it has been addressed, at least, in part by these sessions and those folks in charge of those forms that the whole university has to use are aware and are trying to educate themselves so that they can be improved and made accessible, I just, I think in the same vein that everybody else is here trying to move forward and learn. Does that answer your question? >> That's a great idea to take the forms that we have problems with and show where the problems are. >> Yeah and we were very fortunate that the folks who were owners of these things were willing to share them. >> I was one of them. [Laughter] >> Do you know who's responsible for the 33A form [inaudible] a conflict of disclosure [inaudible] >> Okay, I don't know about that one. >> All I was trying to say is that if you see her, let her know there's no line on there for ... >> I'm the one in charge of that one. >> [Inaudible] activity or list of places that have engaged [inaudible] There's another form that's not one of the examples. There's actually -- another one is a conflict of interest [inaudible] or something along those lines and it doesn't have a line for saying which on those lists of possible places might be visited throughout the year -- of which of those places you're going to. It just says, "Where are you going and what day?" And you know, "What [inaudible] you have?" And "What kind [inaudible] -- there's no line on there to say who are you talking about. Is there an [inaudible] >> Oh [inaudible] there's a couple of those that are not [inaudible] We have one and [inaudible] >> When you're actually [inaudible] these are [inaudible] interests. It's just that when you [inaudible] when are you leaving, when are you coming back to the university, but it doesn't have a line, you know, who is it you're visiting? >> [Laughter] >> [Multiples speak] >> It's not on the form so I didn't tell them that [inaudible] at the margin. >> Anymore questions, comments? Things you want to talk about. >> I think you've answered a lot of questions about where maybe some of the next steps have to be and I think -- because we're all faced with this web accessibility that as it existed, so or perhaps March of 2010 when we came into [inaudible] that, so I think as someone that does like dream forms, but we have to do them, you have a lot that's now -- other that we have to think about, so ... >> And now, you've got enough knowledge that you can go back to your offices instead of looking at the forms you work with on a regular basis. >> And we'll say bull crap. [Laughter] >> Keep a list of your questions and you know, whatever the system is internally for getting answers to those questions. There'll be a lot of -- you can all learn from each other somehow or another. >> And that's -- I'm glad you brought that up. That was something that [inaudible] mentioned in a previous session, ways to get information from other people on campus. In one way is to go to the web accessibility committee website which is Purdue.edu/webaccessibility. And there's a place to ask questions there. But maybe a more direct way is through mixable, there's a web accessibility group, on mixable and you get to that by Purdue.edu/mixable M-I-X-A-B-L-E and you join that group and you can post a question. Other people who are members of that group can respond with, "Oh, yeah, I've tried that," or "I've got the same trouble," or whatever and use collective wisdom to try to improve the situation on campus. So those are a couple of ways that I recommend trying to reach out, connect with other people on campus who are all facing the same issue you're facing. >> Dean, I have a question for you. These handouts, is there -- I assume this is your work that you put together. >> Hmm-mm. >> Is there some way to maybe have an outside [inaudible] on the website, you know, something [inaudible] would that help people. [Inaudible] >> I think ... >> [Inaudible] have to ask Carol [assumed spelling] >> You're welcome to ask, feel free. Anything we produce this with federal grant money, and it's open source, so use it as you see fit and repurpose it if you see fit. >> Gerry provided the handout, he provided this PowerPoint slides. My intention and as long as he doesn't object is to put those on our web accessibility on the website. We have a section on PDF accessibility there already. And we will either put it in with those other resources or maybe we'll make another page separately for PDF resources. Whatever it is, we'll have those documents that Carol's provided on our website and we're recording these sessions or we're going to choose the best one of the PDF documents recordings and the best one of the PDF forms recordings, caption them and then put them up on our website as well. So you'll have yet access to these recordings, so that you can have a refresher anytime you want. Then, once those are available on the website, I'll be emailing all of the class list to say the recordings are now available. >> [Inaudible comment] >> Hidden behind the screen. That's an evaluation form that -- online that we'd like everyone to take today before you go. If you haven't signed up yet [inaudible] PIT.LYPDFEVAL2011. PDF does have to be capitalized I'm told, so if you've already signed off, we've got copies if you prefer that. So I'll take a couple of minutes. We'd really like your feedback so that we can continue to offer the things that are important to you and continue to make progress in the evaluation information [inaudible] [ Silence ] >> [Inaudible] pre-evaluation. You can continue to ask questions of Carol as long as she's willing to stay or you're free to go.